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Help Determining and Solving my Lag Issues

 
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MPTG  





Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 132
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Help Determining and Solving my Lag Issues Reply with quote

Hello fellow SHers

Been quite a while since the last time I actully posted something here(shame on me I know).

Well the reason I come to you today is because I need help in solving or maybe understanding the lag issues I have with my HDTV.

Here's the deal:
Last year I bought an LG M237WA HD LCD TV.
Now I usually plug the XBOX to it via composite/component, hence creating full HD quality but with quite notable lag due to video and audio data arriving from 5 diffrent connections.
After some time with the TV I managed to calibrate it's lag rather accurately with video being calibrated to 30ms positive and audio ranging from 30-40ms positive.

A few days ago I decided to try and hook up an HDMI cable and see if the lag issues are solved but after several hours of play I were yet unable to determine whether the lag issues were solved, at start I played with the cable on the regular lag settings(I played GH5 with 30ms video and 40ms audio), it played really well and it felt like there was no actual lag.
Then I decided to try and play without calibration, I worked the game's calibration test and it brought the settings down to 0ms on both audio and video, I tried playing with it and it felt like there was no lag yet again...

Then I decided to go and try and play RB2 with the cable, on RB2 the original lag settings were 30ms for both audio and video and while playing the game with the cable it didn't seem like there was lag but I could be mistaken cause I played the drums and i'm not sure how accurate I am with determining lag with drums.
Then I decided to activate RB2's lag test and it set audio to 33ms and video to -13ms...
I tried playing with that too and still didn't seem like there was lag.

So what I wanted to know was, does the HDMI cable completely solves all lag issues?
And also, do calibration settings even affect the lag when an HDMI cable is plugged?

BTW the response time of the TV is 6ms.

TL;DR I need help understanding if plugging an HDMI cable solves all lag issues on my TV and if calibration settings even affect the TV when an HDMI cable is plugged.

soryy it's so long XD
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metalhead2354  





Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best way that I have found to fix lag is to use component or composite cables and completely bypass the TV with the audio cables to a surround sound system or another speaker system. The lag is from the HDTV taking too long to process the audio. I found a 40 dollar surround sound system at wal mart and did this and it fixed my lag problems for every GH and RB game completely.

I can't comment on the HDMI cable question because my HDTV doesn't have an HDMI hook up.
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Mike65707  





Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Posts: 1477
Location: Missouri

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can still get lag with both HDMI and Component cables..but it's not the cables causing it. It's mainly the TV (which is why TVs need different lag settings). I use component and have no lag what so ever.

If the in-game lag calibration doesn't work you can try to set it manually. Start with the video by muting the TV so there's no interference then play around with the numbers. When I had a TV with lag I'd usually start really high and work to lower numbers but that was just me.
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Wattershed  





Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 1001

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalhead2354 wrote:
The best way that I have found to fix lag is to use component or composite cables and completely bypass the TV with the audio cables to a surround sound system or another speaker system. The lag is from the HDTV taking too long to process the audio. I found a 40 dollar surround sound system at wal mart and did this and it fixed my lag problems for every GH and RB game completely.

I can't comment on the HDMI cable question because my HDTV doesn't have an HDMI hook up.


RCA cables to my Logitech Z-5500 creates 25ms audio lag. Optic cable creates 32ms audio lag.

VGA to my syncmaster monitor that says has 5ms has 5ms ingame as compensation.
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Also, it sucks that they'll probably mute the "FIST FUCK" part of Wish by Nine Inch Nails, the most iconic part of the song. :/
We didn't edit it out. In fact, not only did we boost the volume of that vocal phrase, but we replaced the vocals of every song in the game with the phrase "FIST FUCK" repeating over and over.
You can still...
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MPTG  





Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 132
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well after a bit more of playtime here are the conclusions which I have made:
For some reason the GH5 engine creates absolutely no lag with the HDMI cable, it plays excellent with 0ms on both video and audio and I have been getting expert FC's on it all day.

The RB2 engine on the other hand is diffrent, it seems to be calibrated well with about 30ms postivie audio calibration and abot -15ms video calibration and yet still there is room to perfect the calibrating and it requires some more testing.

I have also decided to test the GH3 engine and apparently this one works well with again 30ms video and 30ms audio, I might try testing it with 0ms on both tomorrow.

For now the results of this test are rather interesting and I might look into some other GH/RB titles in the next few days to get some more solid results.
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Chris9092  





Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 754
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MPTG wrote:
Well after a bit more of playtime here are the conclusions which I have made:
For some reason the GH5 engine creates absolutely no lag with the HDMI cable, it plays excellent with 0ms on both video and audio and I have been getting expert FC's on it all day.

The RB2 engine on the other hand is diffrent, it seems to be calibrated well with about 30ms postivie audio calibration and abot -15ms video calibration and yet still there is room to perfect the calibrating and it requires some more testing.

I have also decided to test the GH3 engine and apparently this one works well with again 30ms video and 30ms audio, I might try testing it with 0ms on both tomorrow.

For now the results of this test are rather interesting and I might look into some other GH/RB titles in the next few days to get some more solid results.


I believe RB is set at 20 video and audio lag, so if your TV has 0 lag then it would be -20 or something along those lines. Don't quote me on those values but I know RB is different than GH for Calibrating.
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MPTG  





Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 132
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris9092 wrote:
MPTG wrote:
Well after a bit more of playtime here are the conclusions which I have made:
For some reason the GH5 engine creates absolutely no lag with the HDMI cable, it plays excellent with 0ms on both video and audio and I have been getting expert FC's on it all day.

The RB2 engine on the other hand is diffrent, it seems to be calibrated well with about 30ms postivie audio calibration and abot -15ms video calibration and yet still there is room to perfect the calibrating and it requires some more testing.

I have also decided to test the GH3 engine and apparently this one works well with again 30ms video and 30ms audio, I might try testing it with 0ms on both tomorrow.

For now the results of this test are rather interesting and I might look into some other GH/RB titles in the next few days to get some more solid results.


I believe RB is set at 20 video and audio lag, so if your TV has 0 lag then it would be -20 or something along those lines. Don't quote me on those values but I know RB is different than GH for Calibrating.

Yeah the diffrent graphics and timing window make it impossible for GH and RB to have the same calibration settings but if it is truly at around the 20ms positive default lag. Then i suppose if my TV has 6ms by default I should calibrate for -26ms on both audio and video??
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ricecake  





Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 1890
Location: Linthicum Heights, MD

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that GH doesn't allow for negative calibration numbers, and gave a snarky answer that it would involve time travel. However, I am playing on a CRT, and I cannot get GH5 calibrated just right. I have to hit everything late. I have no problems at all calibrating RB.
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MPTG  





Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 132
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ricecake wrote:
The problem is that GH doesn't allow for negative calibration numbers, and gave a snarky answer that it would involve time travel. However, I am playing on a CRT, and I cannot get GH5 calibrated just right. I have to hit everything late. I have no problems at all calibrating RB.

I know that GH doesn't have a negative calibration option but it seems that in the GH games I play I don't actully need it cause the games seem to run well with a positive calibration.
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SplashAttack  





Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MPTG wrote:
ricecake wrote:
The problem is that GH doesn't allow for negative calibration numbers, and gave a snarky answer that it would involve time travel. However, I am playing on a CRT, and I cannot get GH5 calibrated just right. I have to hit everything late. I have no problems at all calibrating RB.

I know that GH doesn't have a negative calibration option but it seems that in the GH games I play I don't actully need it cause the games seem to run well with a positive calibration.


I agree with MPTG. I have a Samsung LCD TV that is apparently meant for gaming (it has something like a 3ms response time). I also have my TV hooked up to a Bose speaker system. On guitar hero 5 I tried to calibrate the video lag first by muting the speakers and just playing and had no lag whatsoever (0ms). However, my audio lag is really high (176ms). This setup works perfectly. Maybe for guitar hero you just have to have audio lag calibrated really high to fix the lag problems that people with negative rockband calibrations (like myself) have.

I don't actually remember my Rock Band 2 calibration. All I know is both settings are negative and it works for me
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ricecake  





Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 1890
Location: Linthicum Heights, MD

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I may have to go back and try that. My RB numbers are 0 audio and -5 video. I tried 0/0 on GH5 and it didn't work that great. I actually went through the calibration process and got something like 30 for video, and audio I had a hard time getting right.

I wish there were a video for GH like the Tommy Gun calibration video for Rock Band that explained exactly how the settings interact with each other.
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SplashAttack  





Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ricecake wrote:
Hmm, I may have to go back and try that. My RB numbers are 0 audio and -5 video. I tried 0/0 on GH5 and it didn't work that great. I actually went through the calibration process and got something like 30 for video, and audio I had a hard time getting right.

I wish there were a video for GH like the Tommy Gun calibration video for Rock Band that explained exactly how the settings interact with each other.


Ya that video REALLY helped me with rock band.
Try not to do the auto calibrate. It doesn't work that great and you're better off trying to do it by ear only increasing by incriments of 10ms. Or make a really extreme jump and see if it flips the problem (eg. going from audio first video second - to - video first audio second) It took me like an hour and a half to get GH5 perfect (I mean look at the numbers I ended up with ).
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MPTG  





Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 132
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SplashAttack wrote:
MPTG wrote:
ricecake wrote:
The problem is that GH doesn't allow for negative calibration numbers, and gave a snarky answer that it would involve time travel. However, I am playing on a CRT, and I cannot get GH5 calibrated just right. I have to hit everything late. I have no problems at all calibrating RB.

I know that GH doesn't have a negative calibration option but it seems that in the GH games I play I don't actully need it cause the games seem to run well with a positive calibration.


I agree with MPTG. I have a Samsung LCD TV that is apparently meant for gaming (it has something like a 3ms response time). I also have my TV hooked up to a Bose speaker system. On guitar hero 5 I tried to calibrate the video lag first by muting the speakers and just playing and had no lag whatsoever (0ms). However, my audio lag is really high (176ms). This setup works perfectly. Maybe for guitar hero you just have to have audio lag calibrated really high to fix the lag problems that people with negative rockband calibrations (like myself) have.

I don't actually remember my Rock Band 2 calibration. All I know is both settings are negative and it works for me


What you're saying is actully kinda weird because usually hooking up speakers to the TV should solve the audio lag, probably because less data needs to be processed by the TV itself and the speakers give her some more "air to breath".

As for GH5 I find it really interesting that the visual engine of the game creates no lag, the question is how common this phenomenom is among diffrent TV's with diffrent response times.

As for my RB2 calibration it's quite weird I used the calibration test and it gave me positive audio(33ms) and negative video(-13ms)although I believe I will never calibrate automaticlly video the right way since it depends on how early before the note actully comes you usually hit, so I guess for me manual video calibration works best.
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