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Chrisssss
Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 1704
Location: Middlesex, England
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 Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| inv4der wrote: | | Chrisssss wrote: | | but fuck practice mode because that makes it easier for people to learn stuff and just FGFC something like it's not even an achievement. |
What. |
It's fundamentally true. GH1 took a lot longer to FGFC than any of the other games (albeit GH1 also has the 'strumming every note' issue) - unless Jordan, Trogdor, TTFAF, or One etc. made GH2/GH3 longer, that is. I see nothing wrong with practice mode and I use it myself on other games, as do most people, but it does make sections easier because people can "practice" the hard parts. By the way, there's nothing wrong with that and I bow down to all players with difficult FC's because no amount of practice would see me even come close to most songs on XGuitar/XBass.
And the achievement part I already said it's obviously still an achievement.
All I'm saying is that practice mode makes a game arguably easier because people can just take that one bit and learn it. Having no practice mode, however annoying that may be, gives that tiny bit more of a challenge to the 'best' players, much like no hyperspeed.
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inv4der
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 9658
Location: Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Practice only makes sections easy because you're learning how to do them, through practice. And practice will still do literally nothing if you don't have the basic skills.
FGFCs are not too easy, and practice mode isn't to blame for anything. We have had years to build up the basic skills and muscle memory involved in how to play these games well. Due to the simplified nature of these games, a lot of patterns are the same between songs, just at a different speed. If you learn the technique for how to tap ascending triplets, they're very unlikely to trip you up in any context you see them in in the future.
GH1 took a long time to FGFC because people were outright not as good back then, nor had anyone actually spent years getting good at the gameplay mechanics. Later games had easier engines and came out when players were getting better and better, thus reducing the time required to FGFC. Practice is merely a tool to facilitate the learning that lead to this skill, it on its own has done nothing wrong.
(Also mentioning Trogdor's FC difficulty is not at all fair since it's only difficult due to an engine problem, something practice was no help with, not anything actually hard being in the chart.)
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Chrisssss
Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 1704
Location: Middlesex, England
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| inv4der wrote: | Practice only makes sections easy because you're learning how to do them, through practice. And practice will still do literally nothing if you don't have the basic skills.
FGFCs are not too easy, and practice mode isn't to blame for anything. We have had years to build up the basic skills and muscle memory involved in how to play these games well. Due to the simplified nature of these games, a lot of patterns are the same between songs, just at a different speed. If you learn the technique for how to tap ascending triplets, they're very unlikely to trip you up in any context you see them in in the future.
GH1 took a long time to FGFC because people were outright not as good back then, nor had anyone actually spent years getting good at the gameplay mechanics. Later games had easier engines and came out when players were getting better and better, thus reducing the time required to FGFC. Practice is merely a tool to facilitate the learning that lead to this skill, it on its own has done nothing wrong.
(Also mentioning Trogdor's FC difficulty is not at all fair since it's only difficult due to an engine problem, something practice was no help with, not anything actually hard being in the chart.) |
I mentioned in my first post that games are being FGFC'd too easily because of how amazing players are. I fully appreciate that practice has made them that way and also that some of the games now seem "easier" because of similar patterns and/or generally improved player ability.
Of course practice mode has done nothing wrong, in fact it's helped people achieve and FC the otherwise impossible... my point really is that without practice mode it makes it less readily available to learn or practice a difficult part making it, in theory, a longer game to FC (though that won't stop some people getting the FGFC in a few days).
I don't want to have an argument or debate or even a discussion. I like hyperspeed and I like practice mode, but not having them makes the game a little more challenging which, for me, is good. In all honesty, even with them on this game I would suck because of the weird chords lol.
Anyway, I live in the UK and it's late and I have work tomorrow. I could never become that good at Guitar Hero because I lack the 'basic skills' for tapping etc.! Nevertheless, I'm gonna enjoy the challenge of the new game, with or without hyperspeed/practice mode.
I don't want to step on anyone's toes or beliefs/opinions, so I bid you all a fond farewell and have a merry old Sunday night. 
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iamchris4life
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 670
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TerminX13 wrote: | | iamchris4life wrote: | | [*]Limited Star Power Activations: I had finally unlocked the ability to do something useful with Star Power like the normal Double Multiplier behavior, only to find out I can only use it a certain number of times before I had to buy more activations using Coins. |
Seriously? Is this real?
They start you out with possibly the worst powerup of all time (the one that doesn't let you play the game anymore), and you have to buy limited uses of regular SP? With the same money you now aren't buying plays with?
I wish this game wasn't so damn interesting because it seems like the more I hear about it, the more idiotic terrible decisions I discover |
It's just as bad as it sounds. But even worse, remember that it's the same money you need to upgrade your guitar, so you are no longer able to spend them on SP activations, which means you're really not gonna be buying plays with coins anytime soon.
I did the math on how many coins it'll take to fully upgrade your guitar, which means leveling up to 4 on each of how often SP phrases occur, how much each note is worth, your max multiplier, and how fast your multiplier increases: 120,000 Coins. Assuming you get 150-200 coins per song, that's 600-800 song plays of songs you don't necessarily want to play. Even after that torturous process, you'll still be bottlenecked by having to play 2-3 songs to earn enough SP for 1 on-demand song attempt, compounded with the fact you'll need to play an additional 3-4 songs to even be able to select that 1 on-demand song once. Now if you are planning to grind the song and want to stockpile your resources for 20 consecutive attempts, you are looking at 100-140 GHTV song plays in preparation for your 20-play attempt. If I ever get to this point, considering that literally the only thing I have motivation to do with this game is obtain high scores, I will be setting the game down until Activision introduces a patch that will let me bypass playing songs that I don't want to play. In the meantime, I'll continue playing this game until my skill plateaus from the lack of practice mode.
EDIT: Edited for incorrect math
| Chrisssss wrote: | | Because of how amazing some players are on expert mode, the last several games have all been FGFC'd in the first day or first couple of days. In all honesty, where is the fun in that? |
Your mentality is backwards. Previous GH games were FGFC'd in one day because there was nothing new about the GH mechanics to master. Knowing how to do all of the patterns in one game meant knowing how to do all of the patterns in the next game. If anything, GHL is the game in which it was most crucial is include a practice mode because there are so many new patterns to master with no medium to do so.
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"You say it draws near, the tits will be clear" - The Way It Ends
Last edited by iamchris4life on Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Warhiem
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Wow Chris, a legend has returned! I'm not too familiar with those guitar upgrades you mention, what exactly are they? It does seem really hard to 5 star anything on GHTV, I get the high 90%'s on every song yet I've never actually gotten 5 stars yet. If the amount of SP phrases and points are locked behind a coin wall that's not really cool
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Kubuh 
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 1765
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Warhiem wrote: | | Wow Chris, a legend has returned! I'm not too familiar with those guitar upgrades you mention, what exactly are they? It does seem really hard to 5 star anything on GHTV, I get the high 90%'s on every song yet I've never actually gotten 5 stars yet. If the amount of SP phrases and points are locked behind a coin wall that's not really cool |
Chris mentioned them up there. More Hero Power notes, more points per note, higher max multiplier and faster multiplier increase. 4 levels of each, 6000 coins for level 2, 9000 coins for level 3 and 15000 coins for level 4. So that's 120000 coins to get them all up to level 4, not sure where Chris got 192000 from. It is kinda dumb but TV is clearly something not designed to actually go for scores in at all.
Edit: There's also the daily coin bonuses which does seem to add up quite a bit
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Last edited by Kubuh on Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:41 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Mr.Scientist
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 1828
Location: Quebec City, QC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Kubuh wrote: | | something else that I forgot right now. |
Multiplier goes up faster.
EDIT: Kubuh too fast.
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Warhiem
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Kubuh wrote: | | Warhiem wrote: | | Wow Chris, a legend has returned! I'm not too familiar with those guitar upgrades you mention, what exactly are they? It does seem really hard to 5 star anything on GHTV, I get the high 90%'s on every song yet I've never actually gotten 5 stars yet. If the amount of SP phrases and points are locked behind a coin wall that's not really cool |
Chris mentioned them up there. More Hero Power notes, more points per note, higher max multiplier and faster multiplier increase. 4 levels of each, 6000 coins for level 2, 9000 coins for level 3 and 15000 coins for level 4. So that's 120000 coins to get them all up to level 4, not sure where Chris got 192000 from. It is kinda dumb but TV is clearly something not designed to actually go for scores in at all.
Edit: There's also the daily coin bonuses which does seem to add up quite a bit |
Guess I should clarify, when you start out without any upgrades, are you worse off than in Live mode, or past guitar hero games?
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SlasherManEXE 
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2634
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:02 am Post subject: |
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yes, because the only power you have erases notes
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iimeade
Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 191
Location: back in san diego, probably
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Chrisssss wrote: | | but fuck practice mode because that makes it easier for people to learn stuff and just FGFC something like it's not even an achievement. |
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| parzrevenge wrote: | | stop trying to be pieman 2015 |
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Warhiem
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| SlasherManEXE wrote: | | yes, because the only power you have erases notes |
Yeah that's a bad one to start out with, not sure why they chose that and made 2x score behind so many levels. Am I wrong in thinking that aside from the specific hero power and their frequency that you start off the same as a live mode in terms of how many points notes are worth and how quickly your multiplier goes up?
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Kubuh
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 1765
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| Warhiem wrote: | | SlasherManEXE wrote: | | yes, because the only power you have erases notes |
Yeah that's a bad one to start out with, not sure why they chose that and made 2x score behind so many levels. Am I wrong in thinking that aside from the specific hero power and their frequency that you start off the same as a live mode in terms of how many points notes are worth and how quickly your multiplier goes up? |
No, scoring is same as in Live and you get to 4X with a 30 note streak as usual.
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HellAshes
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 8320
Location: Livingston, NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:40 am Post subject: |
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Am I returning the game?
Short answer? No, because I'm having fun.
Long answer?
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Chrisssss
Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 1704
Location: Middlesex, England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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If people want to play the game solely to FC everything as quickly as possible and be the "first" then bitch and whine about no practice mode and the gameplay etc. as much as you like.
For me, I play for fun and I am never going to be one of the best and I couldn't give a shit. I like a challenge and this game gives that. You lot can go ahead and just FC everything in two seconds and that's the end of the game because this one doesn't have as much squeezing capability involved so there's no point playing once you FC it, seeing as that's all people apparently care about.
But whatever, each to their own. Everyone has their own opinion on the game and everyone probably thinks parts are good and other parts are bad. You can't please everyone. It's a game at the end of the day, you're meant to play games to have fun, not just to "complete" it as soon as possible.
I think the creators have done well because they've given it a new feel and a new challenge. Yeah they could've had a better setlist but oh well, it's not like all of the other games had only good songs.
I'm done with this thread and I don't care what people think about what I have posted here because I'm never gonna be unfortunate enough to meet you anyway, so I'm gonna carry on with my life and play this game for fun as and when I have time to do so.
Over and fucking out.
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gitarzann
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Chrisssss wrote: | If people want to play the game solely to FC everything as quickly as possible and be the "first" then bitch and whine about no practice mode and the gameplay etc. as much as you like.
For me, I play for fun and I am never going to be one of the best and I couldn't give a shit. I like a challenge and this game gives that. You lot can go ahead and just FC everything in two seconds and that's the end of the game because this one doesn't have as much squeezing capability involved so there's no point playing once you FC it, seeing as that's all people apparently care about.
But whatever, each to their own. Everyone has their own opinion on the game and everyone probably thinks parts are good and other parts are bad. You can't please everyone. It's a game at the end of the day, you're meant to play games to have fun, not just to "complete" it as soon as possible.
I think the creators have done well because they've given it a new feel and a new challenge. Yeah they could've had a better setlist but oh well, it's not like all of the other games had only good songs.
I'm done with this thread and I don't care what people think about what I have posted here because I'm never gonna be unfortunate enough to meet you anyway, so I'm gonna carry on with my life and play this game for fun as and when I have time to do so.
Over and fucking out. |
I'm not really understanding what you are so upset about. Just as you strongly believe in playing the game for the fun of it-- and that's why I play it too-- there are those that feel just as strongly about conquering it in the fastest time. That is their enjoyment mode and they're perfectly entitled to that. I don't get why what others think affects you on such an emotional level but whatever.
Frankly, I don't think they care one whit about the competitive scene (which I am not a part of). They threw a bone with a seriously overcharted expert mode and no hyperspeed to say, "See? we accommodated you guys." The rest of the game is designed to nickel and dime us to death. Everything in the game is temporary unless you pay. I played again for a good while yesterday and had a lot more stuff I hadn't seen before, but then repeats started coming around again and what did I do? Did I head over and pay to play songs I wanted? Nope. I shut off the game and came back to it later. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Seems like a marketing thing: the more repeats there are, the more people will sigh and drop the cash to cherry pick from the catalog. Offering more channels, variety and the ability to skip a song you've played a thousand times on GHTV is bad for business. Adding practice mode seems impossible if they are charging you per song. How would that work exactly for songs that are not on the disk? Their attitude is likely that if you want to master a song that badly, you'll buy it 100 times.
I'm really having a lot of fun in Regular mode on GHTV and still getting tripped up by the black/white chords. I do see myself getting very frustrated at the number of repeat songs I'm seeing so I channel hop and walk away if I don't like the songs. In the beginning, the novelty of not having to choose and songs just coming on was really great, but once you've played the same few songs a dozen times, you're not excited to see them come up again. |
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